VIDEO · PUBLIC LIBRARY #698
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Timestamped transcript 00:00 Sally Yates is leading the independent review into how Cornell University handled the Jane Doe case and the sexual assaults in general.00:07 Has Jane Doe been interviewed yet and how far along is that review?00:12 She's not been interviewed yet. It's very early days. In fact, I was just contacted by Sally Yates earlier this week to speak with her.00:20 I think it's going to be a very good process as far as no stone is going to be left unturned and hopefully we'll get to the bottom of things.00:29 Do you think Jane Doe will be interviewed for that process?00:31 She absolutely will be.00:32 And I suspect her family will be as well because part of the issue with Cornell is their response00:37 to the rapes and what they did after the rapes and I think that's important and her parents00:42 had a lot of involvement with that.00:44 Any sense how long this review will take?00:46 Well, I think they'll do a much better job than the district attorney of Tompkins00:51 County.00:52 I would imagine it's a matter of months and I think she will do an excellent00:56 job.00:57 Now Cornell's faculty senate voted yesterday to go ahead with a no confidence vote.01:00 We were actually listening in on that call against Cornell president Kotlikoff and the administration.01:07 They decided to do this rather than wait for Sally Yates's review to be finished.01:12 So this vote is going to happen over the next week virtually by the faculty senate.01:17 Does Jane Doe have confidence in Michael Kotlikoff to lead Cornell?01:21 I think she has some concerns.01:23 I think following the assaults, the president of our sorority reached out to him and his01:28 response was, well why didn't she go to the police sooner?01:32 I mean we were talking about two weeks after the rape, she went to the police.01:35 And that is the one issue she really had and she didn't feel that there was a great response01:40 or great support from the university following the assault.01:44 You know on this call there was a lot of debate among the faculty about what they01:48 should do.01:49 Do you think I mean Jane Doe has an opportunity here to help inform this vote of no confidence01:55 Is she willing to support a no confidence vote? I think her position is she wasn't happy with how things happen02:02 But her experience with Cornell has moved on02:05 I mean the train has left the station for if they can make some improvements02:09 And that's the goal of our lawsuit to make some improvements going forward02:13 but I think she has a lot on her plate that02:16 Far exceed what's going on in Ithaca, New York02:19 So Cornell actually disputes the second hand account.02:23 I'm sure you know this.02:24 They say that Kotlakov was questioning why bystanders didn't report the incident sooner, not necessarily specifically Jane Doe.02:32 What's your response to that?02:33 Well, I think that's convenient.02:34 I think the interpretation of the person who was there makes more sense than in the context of the conversation than what they're trying to say now.02:43 Now, as for the Cornell Police investigation, there was a lot of talk about that six-page sworn statement.02:48 statement by Jane Doe that did not include her assertion that she was quote 100% raped.02:55 Why was that statement left out given that she made changes to her statement and ultimately03:00 signed off on it?03:01 Well, she gave a statements that were 100 pages and transcribed.03:07 Her understanding at the time was that that 100 page interview was going to be going03:12 along with the statement.03:13 It's not just six pages, and this is it.03:16 And in that, it included the violence.03:18 It included the force.03:19 It included 100% certain she was raped.03:22 Now, you have to ask yourself, why03:24 was that six-page report sanitized?03:26 Why did it not include these important points that actually03:29 lay out the elements of a crime?03:31 But she was not the police officer.03:33 She was not the investigator.03:34 She cooperated.03:35 She gave this evidence.03:36 And apparently, it wasn't forwarded on,03:39 depending on who you believe.03:40 And you have to ask yourself, why03:42 was it not included in the six page report so even though Jane Joe made edits03:45 to that six page report it was her belief that that was not going to be the03:48 only document that was sent over to police why would she I mean just03:52 logically I mean you have to wonder why that six page report was the only thing03:57 that was done why was it written in the fashion it was she didn't she wasn't04:00 the author of it but she gave a hundred pages of testimony about what04:04 it occurred that included all the elements of a crime and then you a04:07 sanitized report is prepared which eliminated all the elements of the crime.04:12 You have to wonder.04:13 Do you think this was a cover-up by Cornell University?04:17 I think there was a cover-up and I'm not somebody who says that lightly.04:20 I certainly am not.04:22 And I think there was a cover-up.04:23 I think there was a desire to protect the institution.04:26 I think that went forward with up in Tompkins County because look, it's the single biggest04:33 employer.04:34 It's the source of all the revenue in the county.04:35 you get outside of Cornell in Tompkins County,04:37 you have cows, you have farms, that's it.04:40 So you have to wonder why all of this information04:43 was not included, why were the interviews not included04:46 to the police, why were all the statements that supported04:50 a crime not forward and onto the district attorney.04:53 But here's the bigger question.04:54 The district attorney is the person04:55 who's in charge of doing the prosecution.04:58 Why didn't they request all the investigation materials?05:01 And here's the thing that I think is very important.05:03 Why are they being leaked?05:05 Because I don't get investigation materials as an attorney in a civil case.05:09 They go to the defense lawyer in a criminal case, they're called Brady materials.05:14 So who's releasing these materials?05:16 Who's leaking them to the press?05:17 I think what happened was the people who did the investigation thought there was05:20 a crime.05:22 And I think they're not happy that they have egg on their face and being portrayed05:26 as inept, because that's what I thought.05:29 And now they're showing, look, we did our job, but the people in charge, the05:32 the bosses didn't follow up on it.05:35 So you have been accused of leaking this information.05:38 In fact, in court, one of the attorneys for the accused05:40 says that you are attempting to poison the jury pool05:44 by going out there and leaking this information.05:46 Do you deny that you're leaking anything to the press,05:49 the text messages, anything?05:51 I sent a letter to the court.05:54 I offered to give the court a review of my emails05:57 and my text where I said I can't give them to you06:01 because these are confidential.06:02 I was the only one who did that.06:04 All the defense lawyers, the people who said06:05 I was the leaker, didn't take up the offer.06:09 They didn't say, you can look at my text,06:11 you can look at my emails, what does that tell you?06:13 And here's the thing, the things that have been leaked,06:16 of course, the findings, they haven't been leaked06:18 because they're favorable to me.06:19 After a month long hearing,06:21 everybody who I sued was found guilty of something.06:24 I'm not gonna tell you what,06:26 but why are they not leaking that?06:28 Ask yourself that.06:29 So who is leaking this, you think?06:30 I have no idea, but I know it's not me.06:35 I wanted to ask you, so you have suggested06:41 that this two-year delay may have resulted06:43 in critical evidence in this case being destroyed.06:46 Do you have any evidence at all06:48 that critical evidence has been destroyed in this case?06:50 What I have is my experience as a lawyer06:52 looking at cases, evaluating cases for over 30 years.06:55 The best time to get evidence06:56 is close in time to the event.06:58 The longer a time goes by, evidence gets lost,07:02 gets, things go, happen to it,07:04 and you don't have the opportunity to develop your case.07:07 That's why when I get involved in a case,07:09 I wanna get into it early so I can collect the evidence.07:11 That's the delay.07:13 Time is the delay,07:15 and time prevents you from building a solid case.07:18 But why throw out the assertion07:20 that critical evidence could be destroyed?07:22 I mean, at a time when we don't know that.07:24 Well, I know enough about Instagram,07:26 The whole idea about Instagram as it's there, it's gone.07:29 If the group chat, which invited people07:31 to participate in the rape,07:33 if that hadn't been given to Jane Doe within two days,07:37 knowing what I know about Instagram,07:39 it would have disappeared.07:40 So logically, people are on Instagram, it disappears.07:44 People are on Telegram, it disappears.07:47 What I can tell you is I logically know07:50 that the best time to get evidence07:51 in close and proximity to the event.07:54 Has Jane Doe sat with Attorney General Letitia James' team yet,07:57 and has she given a sworn statement?07:59 She has not.08:02 Do you have any idea where we stand on that investigation08:04 right now?08:05 It's early days.08:06 No conversation, no sworn statement, nothing.08:09 So there's an effort today in Monticello, New York.08:12 I had no idea why it's happening there.08:13 But a New York judge is hearing arguments08:15 between one of the accused attorneys and Letitia James08:18 and Governor Kathy Huckle.08:20 Letitia James is being accused of being08:22 biased against the accused man and pre-judging this case by posting on X about Jane Doe quote08:28 we stand with you this was three days before she was chosen to be the special prosecutor.08:33 Do you think A.G.08:34 James should be replaced as special prosecutor to remove even the appearance that an independent08:39 investigation is biased?08:41 Well I think look I'm not a judge I don't rule on that but what I can say is this08:47 Leticia James, I disagreed with her during the Weinstein litigation.08:52 I mean, I'm on record as the person who blew up the class action settled with me08:57 and two other lawyers because I didn't think it was fair.08:59 So, look, Leticia James, I didn't think she was right that time.09:02 She could be right this time.09:03 However, the basic point is this, the New York State Attorney General's office09:07 is not equipped to do criminal investigations.09:10 She's going to appoint somebody who's outside, who's an experienced prosecutor.09:13 She's not going to be in charge of it.09:15 It's much ado about nothing.09:16 I think because they'll be bringing in a professional either somebody, a very experienced09:21 prosecutor from one of the offices down in Manhattan or Brooklyn who deal with sex crimes09:25 all the time.09:27 And that's who's going to be doing the investigation.09:29 Tish James is not doing any investigation.09:31 But ultimately it's in her office and she's given the title of special prosecutor.09:35 So why go through this if it doesn't matter?09:38 Well, why go through this is this is how government works.09:41 She's the leading law officer in the state of New York.09:44 Logically she gets the appointment because she's the leading law officer in the state09:48 I mean you're not going to appoint somebody who doesn't fall into the bureaucratic hierarchy of our government09:54 That's how government works09:55 Would you have preferred somebody who wasn't so political to be in charge of this thing? Well look candidly10:01 the appointment of Letitia James has brought out people who I think are kooks and it caused10:08 Trouble for me personally it caused trouble for my client personally because of10:13 people get she's a polarizing figure now you know that's I could have done10:18 without that yeah you know just overall what does Jane Doe want as a result of10:28 these investigations which she wants first and foremost is she wants there10:33 to be change at Cornell how they educate students to prevent rape let10:40 them know there's consequences if there is sexual abuse and that there's10:44 appropriate support if something happens. Now that didn't happen in her case across the board so10:50 look people have tried to say look this is all about money it's yes it is about money but it's10:54 also about change because any resolution with this case is going to have strings attached that10:58 require them to take steps to educate their incoming freshmen look when I went to college 4011:03 years ago it was made very clear to me at orientation what's appropriate what's not what are11:07 the consequences it's not going to be a joke for example we know we know within 48 hours11:13 before this, this, this rapes occurred, could get arrested for drugs, ketamine, overdose,11:20 ketamine.11:21 Within 48 hours, there shouldn't have been a party that night.11:24 That should be, and their rules say there shouldn't have been a sanctioned party, but11:27 it went ahead.11:28 That kind of stuff shouldn't have happened, and it should stop going forward.11:31 And then what happened with the ketamine?11:33 Why is there so much ketamine there?11:34 I'll ask you about the ketamine in a minute, but I want to ask you about whether, so11:40 You talk about the monetary, I guess, the compensation that you're looking for with11:45 your civil lawsuit.11:47 Would Jane Doe be willing to settle, to make all of this go away with a monetary settlement11:52 that you found sufficient?11:54 No.11:55 It's going to come with strengths, because her goal is also to make a change.11:58 Her goal is to make sure that going forward, there are no more Jane Does.12:02 It's not just about money.12:03 It's about change at that institution, how they deal with sex abuse, how they12:07 deal with rapes and how they support women and men if this happens.12:12 I mean, look, 35% of the people at their institution, and that's 5,000 people, 5,000 have, according12:21 to their own, their own, let me do that again.12:24 Yeah, go ahead.12:25 Let me do that again.12:26 Do I want to ask a question?12:27 Ask me the question.12:28 Yeah, so would Jane Doe be willing to settle for any kind of monetary settlement in12:33 this case?12:34 This is different than other cases.12:35 This is going to have strings attached.12:37 This is going to require Cornell to take steps to prevent sex abuse on campus and to give12:43 support to people who are survivors of sex abuse on campus, none of which happened in12:47 this case.12:48 I mean, here's the thing, 35% of all students at that institution that's reported were12:56 subjected to unwanted sexual conduct, sexual assault.13:00 That's an incredible number.13:01 Now, translate what that 35% is.13:04 I looked up, there's 16,000 people who go to Cornell,13:07 that's about 5,000 people.13:09 That's an incredible amount, actually more.13:10 I'm wrong about that, let me change that again.13:15 I'll start again.13:16 I won't use a PGA on the math, don't worry about that.13:18 What?13:19 The math part, don't worry about that.13:19 Yeah, you're good, you're good.13:20 The rest of it was great, yeah, same with us,13:22 math ain't great.13:23 Math ain't not good, that's us13:24 with the liberal arts degree, so that's a good math.13:28 So, hypothetically here, a settlement is reached13:32 with strings and money.13:33 Would Jane Doe be willing to drop all criminal proceedings13:36 or investigations?13:38 No, no, they need to be accountable.13:41 They need to be accountable.13:42 These boys raped her,13:43 and they should be accountable under the law.13:47 Wow, so there's no way out of this criminal.13:49 Well, we don't make the decision13:50 who's gonna prosecute her, who's not.13:52 She wouldn't drop the charges13:54 or she wouldn't dismiss the charges13:56 on her own right with a settlement.13:58 No, no way, no way.14:00 They should be accountable.14:03 So a judge recently ruled that Jane Doe can continue to use her pseudo name and does not14:09 need to be publicly identified.14:12 Is Jane Doe continuing to receive threats and what are those threats like?14:16 The threats have tapered off because people who make threats are cowards.14:20 And once I was out there explaining that the people who did the swatting and the14:25 people who were making threats against my wife and against Jane Doe, they seemed14:28 to have crawled back into their hole.14:30 So the threats have decreased tremendously because cowards don't want to deal with the14:35 FBI.14:36 They don't want to get hauled into jail.14:38 And so they've gone down dramatically.14:40 And I think there's been an out backlash about what was going on and the people who were14:45 doing this.14:46 And that's a good thing.14:47 It shows that we're Americans, we're good people, and we don't do things like that.14:51 The attorneys for the accused man agreed that Jane Doe should have her anonymity14:55 given the threats that she's facing.14:58 However, in your civil lawsuit, you named all seven accused men.15:01 Yep.15:02 Why did you do that?15:03 Well, because, A, the law doesn't provide them with the right to anonymity.15:07 It does provide to somebody who's a survivor of sex abuse.15:11 The fact is, by identifying them, my experience has been,15:14 I don't know if these guys, is that there's usually information that comes out15:20 when defendants' names are public.15:22 For example, I had a case where I sued somebody publicly and I received three calls for other15:33 victims of this person.15:34 In fact, I had one on another case this morning that I got for somebody with a doctor who15:39 was abusing a patient and I received an email just this morning from somebody who identified15:44 as a survivor and a victim of what had happened.15:46 What about threats towards them and their rights to at least have all the facts15:51 out there before they're being accused of rape?15:54 Well, I do have the facts, and the fact is, what they did was wrong.16:00 That group chat is devastating.16:03 There's no way to go hide that.16:04 You can spin it whatever way you want, but it's an invitation to rape somebody.16:10 Plain and simple.16:11 So you have no concern about the fact that their names are out there before all of16:14 this has been adjudicated?16:16 No, because I think they did what they did.16:19 They should be accountable.16:20 They're sitting there, some of them are still going to Cornell.16:22 My client got into Cornell.16:24 They thought she was somebody from some Nowhere'sville and there wasn't going to be consequences,16:28 but they're going to get their Ivy League degree.16:29 She's not getting her Ivy League degree.16:31 That's not right.16:32 And you see Jane Doe as a completely different, I guess some people might say there's16:39 a hypocrisy in wanting Jane Doe to keep her anonymity, but not these men.16:44 There's no hypocrisy.16:45 The law is the law.16:47 It's written to, you know, in a fashion that protects survivors of sex abuse.16:54 It's not written in a fashion to protect perpetrators of sex abuse.16:58 That's the law.16:59 That's what our politicians up in Albany came up with, and that's the law in the state17:03 of New York.17:04 It's not my law.17:05 It's not Jane Doe's law.17:06 It's the law of the state of New York.17:07 Last few questions here.17:08 You were asked, one of the accused asked a judge to issue a gag order to bar you17:14 from talking to the press.17:15 talked about this, arguing that you were poisoning the jury pool. A judge denied that17:19 request. There's a Netflix documentary that's coming out today. Are you getting paid for17:26 that documentary? Why choose to continue to go out there?17:29 Well, part of the reason I'm continuing to go out there is the following. There's17:33 been a backlash against Jane Doe. There's been leaking of documents to kind of try17:37 to control the narrative by the other side. And I've seen it before. I saw it in17:43 the Sean Combs case, and I knew it was gonna happen in this case, and sure enough it did.17:48 And so I'm basically being the voice for Jane Doe, because Jane Doe can't speak.17:51 I mean, look, the defense lawyers are out there talking, and they're trying to spin17:55 their story.17:56 For example, you know, this whole idea that obviously they have no idea of how rape18:01 trauma works, and they don't like the fact that I can explain how rape trauma18:04 works, because guess what?18:05 I've represented people for years and years, and I've read hundreds of studies,18:09 so I understand it, but they tried to silence it.18:12 I think you just referred to this, but I want to ask you about the TMZ text messages that18:15 were leaked.18:16 And those messages Jane Doe refers to the alleged assault as a quote, gang bang, saying,18:21 I don't think we should feel any shame for that part.18:25 Our body, our choice.18:27 The friendly texts are the two of the seven men she's accused of rape.18:30 What's your response to these texts?18:32 My response to these texts, and this is why they're being leaked in this selective18:36 fashion, is they're the typical reaction of somebody following a rape, particularly18:40 involving close friends.18:42 are rape survivors and this is not me saying this you can look at there's many18:46 many studies and there's no studies out there that say the contrary rape18:50 survivors don't want to be identified as a victim there's denial first step of18:54 any rape survivors processing then there's shame what could I have done18:57 differently and then there's finally acceptance so you know what that's what19:01 science said it's not what I say and that's why the defense tried to19:05 silence me because I can explain the science and they don't want the19:08 science out there. Yeah, there's also a text message at 3 0 5 in the morning to19:12 Jane Doe's roommate in which she asked if she was coming home that night and Jane19:16 answers IDK. I don't know. The text exchange occurred somewhere between a19:21 half hour an hour after she says multiple men were snorting ketamine off19:24 her body and that she was quote out of it. You say in your civil lawsuit19:28 that she was totally incapacitated. The defense says this is proof that19:33 she was not incapacitated that she was not out of it. Well, I think the19:37 The people who said they were snorting ketamine offer, don't dispute they were snorting ketamine19:40 offer.19:41 The people who had sexual relations with her don't deny that they had sexual relations19:45 with her.19:46 I think taking one select text out of 500 pages of evidence in the Title IX hearing19:53 and is really selective, because I could cherry pick anything I want to.19:58 But you know, that's what's going on.20:00 And finally, sources with direct knowledge are telling TMZ that DEA is working with local law enforcement to hunt down the source of the ketamine drug from that night.20:09 Has the DEA contacted you or Jane Doe about ketamine or that investigation?20:14 No, obviously there's a problem. One of the things I believe we mentioned in the lawsuit is one of the men said that the ketamine came from Cornell Labs.20:23 And if they're investigating it, they should.20:25 I mean, logically, why was the Cornell police not investigating why the Kai-Fi house was20:31 overrun with ketamine?20:32 It's a date rape drug.20:34 Everybody knows that.20:35 And so, why, logically, are you in Ithaca, New York, why would you not want to investigate20:40 why there's so much ketamine?20:41 I mean, look, they had a drug overdose, they had a drug bust.20:44 And then they have this incident all in a short period of time.20:47 Doesn't that show a problem?20:48 Doesn't that show why is there so much ketamine up in Ithaca, New York in20:52 in this one frat house.20:53 Would Jane Doe be willing to participate20:55 in a drug investigation?20:56 Well, I don't think she knows anything20:58 about the origins of the drugs.20:59 That I can say for sure.21:01 But I think if they're looking into it,21:03 they should have looked into it two years ago,21:04 and it makes logical sense21:06 that they're looking into it now.21:08 And finally, overall, there just seems to be this idea21:12 that when people read these text messages21:13 in the narrative that's been out there,21:15 there is a sense from reading the text messages21:18 that Jane Doe at least wanted to have sex21:20 with two of those men.21:22 Your civil lawsuit is unequivocal that she was raped21:25 by all of the men, that she was totally incapacitated,21:28 forced to do this, even though there are text messages21:31 and part documents out there that show that Jane Doe21:35 was interested in having sex with at least two of the men21:37 and there are friendly texts before and after.21:40 Why go so far in your civil lawsuit21:44 to accuse all seven of forced rape21:48 And not just at least, you know, isn't there a plausibility here that she wanted to have sex with two of the seven men and that it was raped by the other men at some point in that night?22:00 It wasn't consensual?22:02 What I want to be clear on, and I've said this many times and the complaint says this, I'm not saying every single one of these men committed rape.22:08 I'm certainly not saying that.22:10 What I am saying is the evidence that shows, and again people look in little slivers and cherry-picked to try to present to a narrative,22:17 If she was intoxicated from the time she left her sorority house, she should have never22:22 left that sorority house.22:24 Never, never, never.22:25 And she went out into the world, she served alcohol at two different bars, and then she22:29 shows up there.22:30 She had no ability to consent.22:31 Period.22:32 Okay.22:36 I think we've covered everything.22:38 Do you know anything you want to say?22:40 Anything that we may not have covered?22:41 No, no, no.22:42 Where'd you hear about the DEA thing?22:44 TMZ.22:45 That's why I quoted them.22:47 We don't have it ourselves.22:48 I think you have one more question.22:51 Sure.22:53 Just look at me once you respond.22:54 Yeah.22:55 You alluded to this that she wants to see changes at Cornell.22:58 Yeah.23:00 Does Jane Doe, or do you have actual concrete ideas23:05 as to how this kind of culture can change, not only at Cornell23:09 but university campuses across the country?23:11 Yeah, I think the one thing why this is resonated23:15 is because it's so prevalent,23:18 and it's not just a Cornell problem.23:19 I think it's university-wide,23:22 I think it's society-wide, frankly,23:24 and there are steps that universities can take23:28 to decrease the risk of the incidents.23:31 For example, I did do looking at some of the statistics23:34 from other schools, and there were other schools23:36 that had kind of high numbers, like 35%,23:39 and they instituted programs to kind of address this,23:42 and their numbers dropped down to 20.23:45 So that's a big jump.23:46 So if you take the affirmative steps, the incidences go down23:52 and people get educated.23:53 I mean, look, where I went to school, it's very low.23:55 Relatively, it's only 7%.23:57 But I know where I went to school 40 years ago,23:59 it was very clear to me that if you did something inappropriate24:02 like this, it's no ifs, buts, or maybes, you're out.24:05 And you treat women in a certain way.24:07 And if you don't, there are going to be consequences.24:09 Cornell doesn't seem like they have consequences24:12 in a lot of ways.24:12 And that's a problem and that leads to a culture where you end up with 5,000 people out of24:19 the total population of the undergraduate school being subjected to unwanted sexual24:24 conduct, some kind of assault or rape.
Lucy Craig is Jane Doe - 100% Verified
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